Elena human again?

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XPac
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Re: Elena human again?

Postby XPac » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:28 pm

Quote aerinha: I am going to blame the writing for Elena staying the same inspite of all they "she became a whole other person" crap Stefan and Caroline have been spouting all season. The actress makes a real shift between Elena and Katherine, I never feel Katherine is justnElena with curly hair, so I think if they gave Elena different less wilting violet dialogue and storyline she could pull it off. When she killed the hunter I felt I was seeing dark Elena, not Katherine.

It is tv, they need to show us if she is changed, not tell us repeatedly with no proof.

From all they rah rah Julie Plec gave about Elena growing up and all the Caroline crap, I expected Elena to stop being so naive. Not lose her ability to feel, butntonstop feeling guilty she acted to save herself at the expense of the person trying to kill her. Interviews said Elena was to putnRic's training to use, but it is Jeremy doing the hunting, not her.

Her wanting Damon with no bond would be a change, but they took that away. In the end it is like they made her a vampire to justify her having sex with Damon, but had no intention of committing to it as she remained the same and they plan to cure her. It was. Plot point, not a turning point.

To me Katherine is too much one way and Elena is too much the other. Neither altogether thrills me. You can be a good person and want to save your own life and have fun. But you can also be self centered without having every plan meaning someone good dies to save you. It is like they don't know how to show their dif fences without making one so selfish there is nothing redeeming about her (sorry but nothing I've seen so far justifies Katherine being such a selfish witch all the time) and the other such a mealy mouthed twit that you want to jump into the tv and slap her because she'd rather die that think of any other course of action because someone might get hurt. So again, I blame the writing.

Paging Buffy. Teach Elena that you fight for everyone to survive including you.


In Katherine's defense, I DO think they ended up giving her some layers at the VERY end of season 2, and during season 3.

She did end up saving Damon by delivering him Klaus blood even though everyone expected her to just leave down. And during season 3, she not only saved Stefan from that witch in Chicago (which could arguably have been self serving), but she also got Stefan to save Damon during that whole plan with Micheal even though it arguably served her agenda more to just have Klaus killed and allow Damon to die. Like she herself admits in Homecoming, sometimes her humanity does slip through.

But I'll agree they can probably tweak Elena a bit. Maybe tone down the angst a bit once in awhile. I get that it's necessary but sometimes it's a bit much.

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XPac
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Re: Elena human again?

Postby XPac » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:32 pm

Quote sharon n nick 4eva:
Quote XPac:
Quote aerinha: Except for wanting Damon, vampire Elena is no different from human Elena. They keep going on and on about how different she is, but have never shown her being anything other than what she was before. Still cries, still has no fun, still too worried about everyone else, still making bad choices to save everyone that really put everyone in danger.

I though making her a vampire would give her some spirit.


Even having sex with Damon seems to be on the verge of being blamed in the sure bind instead of a real change in her character.


I do think they all sort of overdo it in regards to how different Elena is supposed to be now. I DO think from the Ms. Mystic Falls pagent onward, she clearly had a much stronger attraction to Damon. But prior to that you really couldn't see a difference in that regard. And really, I don't think you can see a difference in her at all in any other regard.

I'm not sure if that's the fault of the writing or the actress, or maybe she's not really even supposed to be THAT difference and the idea is that everyone else is just blowing it all out of proportion... but I do often feel a disconnect when they keep saying how different she is, because I can barely tell the difference.

But I guess Elena plays the character she needs to play. When we want a more fiery bad ass Elena, we've got Katherine.


Does Elena have to change, just because she's a vampire?

I know her need for blood would make her kill someone. But isn't that what a vampire does.


I think the part that freaks some people out a bit (aside from the issue of her having feelings for Damon) was her at times enjoying drinking blood.

But I think that's a pretty short sighted perspective. I enjoyed a really good steak last night, but that doesn't mean I enjoy killing cows. It just means it was good. I think people are weirded by the fact that she enjoyed consuming blood... but I think Damon's the ONLY person to recognize that it's NORMAL for a vampire to enjoy blood.

To me a lot of the drama about how Elena is changed is so forced. The fact that she constantly cried about harming people to me shows that she really hasn't changed at all.

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sharon n nick 4eva
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Re: Elena human again?

Postby sharon n nick 4eva » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:43 pm

Quote XPac:
Quote sharon n nick 4eva:
Quote XPac:
Quote aerinha: Except for wanting Damon, vampire Elena is no different from human Elena. They keep going on and on about how different she is, but have never shown her being anything other than what she was before. Still cries, still has no fun, still too worried about everyone else, still making bad choices to save everyone that really put everyone in danger.

I though making her a vampire would give her some spirit.


Even having sex with Damon seems to be on the verge of being blamed in the sure bind instead of a real change in her character.


I do think they all sort of overdo it in regards to how different Elena is supposed to be now. I DO think from the Ms. Mystic Falls pagent onward, she clearly had a much stronger attraction to Damon. But prior to that you really couldn't see a difference in that regard. And really, I don't think you can see a difference in her at all in any other regard.

I'm not sure if that's the fault of the writing or the actress, or maybe she's not really even supposed to be THAT difference and the idea is that everyone else is just blowing it all out of proportion... but I do often feel a disconnect when they keep saying how different she is, because I can barely tell the difference.

But I guess Elena plays the character she needs to play. When we want a more fiery bad ass Elena, we've got Katherine.


Does Elena have to change, just because she's a vampire?

I know her need for blood would make her kill someone. But isn't that what a vampire does.


I think the part that freaks some people out a bit (aside from the issue of her having feelings for Damon) was her at times enjoying drinking blood.

But I think that's a pretty short sighted perspective. I enjoyed a really good steak last night, but that doesn't mean I enjoy killing cows. It just means it was good. I think people are weirded by the fact that she enjoyed consuming blood... but I think Damon's the ONLY person to recognize that it's NORMAL for a vampire to enjoy blood.

To me a lot of the drama about how Elena is changed is so forced. The fact that she constantly cried about harming people to me shows that she really hasn't changed at all.


Damon was the only one to let Elena "enjoy it". Even if it was for alittle while.

Damon felt that Elena should embrace her vampireness because she is one.

I think Stefen was more nervous about Elena becoming human again and how she would feel knowing she killed someone.

stjarna
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Re: Elena human again?

Postby stjarna » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:17 am

Quote aerinha: I am going to blame the writing for Elena staying the same inspite of all they "she became a whole other person" crap Stefan and Caroline have been spouting all season. The actress makes a real shift between Elena and Katherine, I never feel Katherine is justnElena with curly hair, so I think if they gave Elena different less wilting violet dialogue and storyline she could pull it off. When she killed the hunter I felt I was seeing dark Elena, not Katherine.

It is tv, they need to show us if she is changed, not tell us repeatedly with no proof.

From all they rah rah Julie Plec gave about Elena growing up and all the Caroline crap, I expected Elena to stop being so naive. Not lose her ability to feel, butntonstop feeling guilty she acted to save herself at the expense of the person trying to kill her. Interviews said Elena was to putnRic's training to use, but it is Jeremy doing the hunting, not her.

Her wanting Damon with no bond would be a change, but they took that away. In the end it is like they made her a vampire to justify her having sex with Damon, but had no intention of committing to it as she remained the same and they plan to cure her. It was. Plot point, not a turning point.

To me Katherine is too much one way and Elena is too much the other. Neither altogether thrills me. You can be a good person and want to save your own life and have fun. But you can also be self centered without having every plan meaning someone good dies to save you. It is like they don't know how to show their dif fences without making one so selfish there is nothing redeeming about her (sorry but nothing I've seen so far justifies Katherine being such a selfish witch all the time) and the other such a mealy mouthed twit that you want to jump into the tv and slap her because she'd rather die that think of any other course of action because someone might get hurt. So again, I blame the writing.Paging Buffy. Teach Elena that you fight for everyone to survive including you.


well said- especially the bolded.
Ah, Buffy! Such a great character...! Miss it!!!!!!
Is there still hope they might see that they missed out with Elena?! Just wondering...
It's a shame- cos there was such a great thing they had with Elena mid season 3- I mean her character should then started to show change and more resolve...
That's why I think- if they go with another shift- back to human or smth more - they can actually start showing the change and development in character....wishful thinking on my part.
:D

stjarna
Posts: 3679
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:16 pm

Re: Elena human again?

Postby stjarna » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:17 am

Quote aerinha: I am going to blame the writing for Elena staying the same inspite of all they "she became a whole other person" crap Stefan and Caroline have been spouting all season. The actress makes a real shift between Elena and Katherine, I never feel Katherine is justnElena with curly hair, so I think if they gave Elena different less wilting violet dialogue and storyline she could pull it off. When she killed the hunter I felt I was seeing dark Elena, not Katherine.

It is tv, they need to show us if she is changed, not tell us repeatedly with no proof.

From all they rah rah Julie Plec gave about Elena growing up and all the Caroline crap, I expected Elena to stop being so naive. Not lose her ability to feel, butntonstop feeling guilty she acted to save herself at the expense of the person trying to kill her. Interviews said Elena was to putnRic's training to use, but it is Jeremy doing the hunting, not her.

Her wanting Damon with no bond would be a change, but they took that away. In the end it is like they made her a vampire to justify her having sex with Damon, but had no intention of committing to it as she remained the same and they plan to cure her. It was. Plot point, not a turning point.

To me Katherine is too much one way and Elena is too much the other. Neither altogether thrills me. You can be a good person and want to save your own life and have fun. But you can also be self centered without having every plan meaning someone good dies to save you. It is like they don't know how to show their dif fences without making one so selfish there is nothing redeeming about her (sorry but nothing I've seen so far justifies Katherine being such a selfish witch all the time) and the other such a mealy mouthed twit that you want to jump into the tv and slap her because she'd rather die that think of any other course of action because someone might get hurt. So again, I blame the writing.Paging Buffy. Teach Elena that you fight for everyone to survive including you.


well said- especially the bolded.
Ah, Buffy! Such a great character...! Miss it!!!!!!
Is there still hope they might see that they missed out with Elena?! Just wondering...
It's a shame- cos there was such a great thing they had with Elena mid season 3- I mean her character should then started to show change and more resolve...
That's why I think- if they go with another shift- back to human or smth more - they can actually start showing the change and development in character....wishful thinking on my part.
:D

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XPac
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Re: Elena human again?

Postby XPac » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:26 am

Quote stjarna:
Quote aerinha: I am going to blame the writing for Elena staying the same inspite of all they "she became a whole other person" crap Stefan and Caroline have been spouting all season. The actress makes a real shift between Elena and Katherine, I never feel Katherine is justnElena with curly hair, so I think if they gave Elena different less wilting violet dialogue and storyline she could pull it off. When she killed the hunter I felt I was seeing dark Elena, not Katherine.

It is tv, they need to show us if she is changed, not tell us repeatedly with no proof.

From all they rah rah Julie Plec gave about Elena growing up and all the Caroline crap, I expected Elena to stop being so naive. Not lose her ability to feel, butntonstop feeling guilty she acted to save herself at the expense of the person trying to kill her. Interviews said Elena was to putnRic's training to use, but it is Jeremy doing the hunting, not her.

Her wanting Damon with no bond would be a change, but they took that away. In the end it is like they made her a vampire to justify her having sex with Damon, but had no intention of committing to it as she remained the same and they plan to cure her. It was. Plot point, not a turning point.

To me Katherine is too much one way and Elena is too much the other. Neither altogether thrills me. You can be a good person and want to save your own life and have fun. But you can also be self centered without having every plan meaning someone good dies to save you. It is like they don't know how to show their dif fences without making one so selfish there is nothing redeeming about her (sorry but nothing I've seen so far justifies Katherine being such a selfish witch all the time) and the other such a mealy mouthed twit that you want to jump into the tv and slap her because she'd rather die that think of any other course of action because someone might get hurt. So again, I blame the writing.Paging Buffy. Teach Elena that you fight for everyone to survive including you.


well said- especially the bolded.
Ah, Buffy! Such a great character...! Miss it!!!!!!
Is there still hope they might see that they missed out with Elena?! Just wondering...
It's a shame- cos there was such a great thing they had with Elena mid season 3- I mean her character should then started to show change and more resolve...
That's why I think- if they go with another shift- back to human or smth more - they can actually start showing the change and development in character....wishful thinking on my part.
:D


I think she actually did start showing a bit more resolve in the third season. During the mid and later points of that whole "Dark Stefan" era she actually did toughen up a bit.

You can argue she badslid a bit this season, but to a degree I suppose that's understandable given that she died and became a sired vamp. There's still time in the season for her to rebound from that. But at least at first I can buy her being somewhat of a mess. That's fair under the circumstances I suppose. Even though I do think all the crying and brooding is sometimes a tad annoying.

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sharon n nick 4eva
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Re: Elena human again?

Postby sharon n nick 4eva » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:26 am

Quote XPac:
Quote stjarna:
Quote aerinha: I am going to blame the writing for Elena staying the same inspite of all they "she became a whole other person" crap Stefan and Caroline have been spouting all season. The actress makes a real shift between Elena and Katherine, I never feel Katherine is justnElena with curly hair, so I think if they gave Elena different less wilting violet dialogue and storyline she could pull it off. When she killed the hunter I felt I was seeing dark Elena, not Katherine.

It is tv, they need to show us if she is changed, not tell us repeatedly with no proof.

From all they rah rah Julie Plec gave about Elena growing up and all the Caroline crap, I expected Elena to stop being so naive. Not lose her ability to feel, butntonstop feeling guilty she acted to save herself at the expense of the person trying to kill her. Interviews said Elena was to putnRic's training to use, but it is Jeremy doing the hunting, not her.

Her wanting Damon with no bond would be a change, but they took that away. In the end it is like they made her a vampire to justify her having sex with Damon, but had no intention of committing to it as she remained the same and they plan to cure her. It was. Plot point, not a turning point.

To me Katherine is too much one way and Elena is too much the other. Neither altogether thrills me. You can be a good person and want to save your own life and have fun. But you can also be self centered without having every plan meaning someone good dies to save you. It is like they don't know how to show their dif fences without making one so selfish there is nothing redeeming about her (sorry but nothing I've seen so far justifies Katherine being such a selfish witch all the time) and the other such a mealy mouthed twit that you want to jump into the tv and slap her because she'd rather die that think of any other course of action because someone might get hurt. So again, I blame the writing.Paging Buffy. Teach Elena that you fight for everyone to survive including you.


well said- especially the bolded.
Ah, Buffy! Such a great character...! Miss it!!!!!!
Is there still hope they might see that they missed out with Elena?! Just wondering...
It's a shame- cos there was such a great thing they had with Elena mid season 3- I mean her character should then started to show change and more resolve...
That's why I think- if they go with another shift- back to human or smth more - they can actually start showing the change and development in character....wishful thinking on my part.
:D


I think she actually did start showing a bit more resolve in the third season. During the mid and later points of that whole "Dark Stefan" era she actually did toughen up a bit.

You can argue she badslid a bit this season, but to a degree I suppose that's understandable given that she died and became a sired vamp. There's still time in the season for her to rebound from that. But at least at first I can buy her being somewhat of a mess. That's fair under the circumstances I suppose. Even though I do think all the crying and brooding is sometimes a tad annoying.


Crying and brooding is a part of Elena be human or vampire. :)

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XPac
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Re: Elena human again?

Postby XPac » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:45 am

I think even Elena herself commented on her crying too much this season.

That's the nice thing about Damon this season... if nothing else, he's able to get her to stop crying for 2 seconds. Or at least that was the case before the sire bond stuff came out.

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sharon n nick 4eva
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Re: Elena human again?

Postby sharon n nick 4eva » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:39 pm

In the beginning of the show when they are all talking Elena said she was a vampire soooooooooo what does that mean??????

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aerinha
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Re: Elena human again?

Postby aerinha » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:49 pm

Quote sharon n nick 4eva: In the beginning of the show when they are all talking Elena said she was a vampire soooooooooo what does that mean??????


I think it was just letting people who are new or who may have tuned out for awhile know Elena is a vampire. She is one.

The part I found weird was Rebekah saying in the beginning that she wanted the cure to marry and have kids when all she wants it for is to make Kalus human.


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