Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

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DestinyAIB
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Re: Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

Postby DestinyAIB » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:28 am

Quote daisysam: Evening Ladies,

So I saw the TV Source Poll - Robin and Patrick back on top. Oh how I remember when Lulu and Dante were right there with them. Guess something's not working - wonder what. Off to watch a little old guard Lante - maybe the water crisis/shower scene. Night all!!!! :) :)




Happy Friday Vintage Lante lovers! :D

So many great posts since I last checked in! It's pretty bad when I take such joy in having a NuLu-free day! Lulu WAS my favorite female character because of Julie's incredible talents, playing every beat in the material to the point that she drew me in and made me feel. Now...nothing! We have a white-washed, unrecognizable character that if she didn't annoy me so much it would be easy to look through her in scenes.

I saw the TVSource results late last night and noticed no sign of NuLante/DZ/ER at all. Very interesting and this pairing feels like a sinking ship with no life raft in sight. I really wish I had faith that TIIC cared about Dante/DZ enough to fix this but sadly I'm concerned they won't.

Ah, the shower scene we had been asking for...good times! ;)

4alarmblaze
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Re: Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

Postby 4alarmblaze » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:16 am

****WAVING**** to all my Vintage Lante Friends!!!

Wow....that's all I got....

I am very curious to see how TPTB are going to fix this mess. Unfortunately I get the feeling DZ/Dante may be collateral damage at this point. I truly hope his value and talent is recognized and they move him on to other stories. It's a crying shame %( %(!!!!!!

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Caitie
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Re: Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

Postby Caitie » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:42 pm

Hello all! This is a two-part post because ... well you know ... I tend to talk a lot when I get going ...

Part 1:

soapcentral.com/gh/content/scoop/twoscoops/2013/131007.php

I read this article when it was first posted last weekend, and my first reaction was that I liked how the writer shed an understanding light on how difficult it can be, in Dan Fogelberg’s words, to “change faces in the middle of a dream.” This article wasn’t about promoting strengths and weaknesses of actors. Rather it was about how hard it can be to change faces during a story because, with such changes, the “history and the foundation” and “built-in richness” of the climax of the story can be lost.

The “reveal” scenes with Maxie, Spinelli, Dante and Lulu provided the catalyst for the POV presented in this article, but other examples were cited as well – the return of a kidnapped Michael to a new Carly; the grieving for Lila Quartermaine by a new Edward; and, in a later comment on the article, the mourning of Robin by a new Maxie.

In all cases, for some viewers, the emotional payoff after a long time – sometimes years – of investment was lost or minimized. Because of the 52-week serial format and frequent exposure, fans can develop stronger emotional attachments than in other media to their characters, their qualities and their relationships … and part of this attachment often includes the faces and some personality qualities of the actors involved. Now I fully acknowledge and accept that recasts occur and that, while it can take time to adjust, recasts can eventually own their new roles.

HOWEVER, as this article indicates and as the examples show, there are pivotal, climactic story points where the changes can be jarring – where the depth of the history and the nature of the relationships can be supremely important for the full emotional payoff. This is especially true in a relationship-based story such as the Maxie/Spin/Dante/Lulu one … and the real core of this story IS the relationship between Maxie and Lulu. Yes, it is about a young married couple wanting a baby, but the driving factor in the story is the long friendship between these two young women. Included as well is the long relationship between Spinelli and Lulu and the four-year-old love story between Dante and Lulu. So there was a lot of history in that chapel on reveal day – but the primary focus was and is on the Maxie/Lulu friendship. Without this friendship, the story would have never have evolved as it did.

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Caitie
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Re: Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

Postby Caitie » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:44 pm

Part 2:

So, for me and apparently others like the writer of this article, the essence and history of the Maxie/Lulu relationship was key to the reveal scenes. And, like her and her husband, I missed the nuances and depth Julie Marie Berman’s history on GH could have brought to the reveal scenes. I felt a twinge of her absence when Lulu was with Maxie for the delivery and during the family scenes outside the nursery. The relationships just hadn’t been established well enough with ER’s Lulu to have them resonate the way they should have in these important parts of the story for some of us viewers. But, as Tamilu says in her article, the absence was especially felt this week. In the past several months, the Maxie-Lulu friendship has been painted somewhat as a “let’s-go-for-ice-cream” nice, happy friendship – rather than the hard-fought, brutally honesty relationship that has been forged over the years between these two young women. So, in the moment of extreme crisis, the depth and nature of that important friendship lost its impact … and Lulu’s anger came off more superficial than it should have in this story for me. In the past, Lulu would have been furious with Maxie, but she would also have shown that a big part of her anger was that she loved and trusted Maxie so much that the betrayal was that much deeper. I just didn’t feel this with a new face playing Lulu, especially since the recent writing hadn’t focused enough on the history of their relationship. A few words were thrown at this thought, but the essential “feeling” just wasn’t there.

And don’t forget that Lulu has a history of difficult relationships and needing to learn to trust. However, the writing and subsequent acting interpretation of ER’s Lulu has been as if that difficult past has been wiped clean – as if it barely happened in this and other relationships. So, when her Lulu had to be the wounded party in these scenes, that needed sense of history and of past struggles was missing, as was a deeper emotional impact for some long-time followers and fans of Lulu Spencer.

So, to go back to what the writer of the article said, this article and my comments are about acknowledging that sometimes there are emotional moments that play much better for some of us with familiar faces and the sense of history we need. It is not about Julie’s choice to leave and recasting her character. The writers knew that she intended to leave as early as July, 2012. It is now October, 2013 – 15 months later. There was plenty of time to rework this story, or to have chosen not to start it, after Julie initially voiced her intentions. (And we have certainly seen that GH management can rewrite in a frenzy on short notice – especially with the machinations to insert three OLTL characters into GH, remove them and then re-insert the actors as totally new characters).

As I processed this article, my mind raced to other topics; for example, character-based stories vs plot-point stories … the timing and process of making changes in characters and actors … the role of actors in maintaining character integrity. But, I’ve rambled on long enough for now.

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mrsmcmoose
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Re: Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

Postby mrsmcmoose » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:19 pm

Quote Meegs:
Quote mrsmcmoose: I wanted to share the "Two Scoops" write-up. Some very interesting discussion points concerning the 'State of Lulu' LOL.

And Meegs I agree. I loved seeing DZ with Olivia. More importantly - enjoyed seeing Olivia as "classic" Olivia. Offering such sage wisdom to her son.

I feel for DZ continually playing such a background role. Dante should be front and center along with Sonny, Michael, Morgan amongst all this Jerome stuff. And I agree about the character of Lulu.

Anyhoo. Here is the link...Happy Reading.

soapcentral.com/gh/content/scoop/twoscoops/2013/131007.php


Thanks for the link...it was a good read. I really think that one reason so many are sympathizing with Spixie is because of KS and BA's history as Maxie and Spinelli. If KS hadn't returned and JL was still Maxie, it wouldn't have the same depth. And that's exactly why it doesn't work for Dante and Lulu now which is why people are having a hard time feeling anything for them. Actually I think most might sympathize with Dante but because he's with Lulu it diminishes him.

Couldn't help contrast that with today's show and Scrubs. This is the first episode I haven't FF in a loooooooog time and I loved every minute of it. And I found myself tearing up again, watching Patrick at the funeral and watching him relive his history with Robin. It works because KMc is back as Robin-it wouldn't have this same emotional impact if either one of them had been recast. That's what is lacking with Dante and Lulu now and giving the emotional edge to Spixie.


Hi Meegs-

I am thrilled Robin is coming back. Something "comforting" about her return. I agree that such pay -off type moments are always just better with the original actors executing such moments. And "Two-Scoops" gave example to significant moments in GH history- w/ Lila's funeral and Michael's coma.

With Jen Lilley I felt her Maxie after a month or so. It wasn't the same - but she carried the spirit of Maxie in her execution. Quirky, flaky, warm, caring..BFF to Lulu. And Jen L's "Maxie" really didn't get the best writing either, but she made it work. She didn't try to bring a different version- but played the role.

Also, with Chad Duell's Michael, another example where I began to feel his interpretation of the character. Chad continued the legacy of Michael, bringing a very conflicted, angry, soulful, character to the canvas.

Now, I understand neither character was part of a major pairing, but it comes down to the individual character. In many respects, ER just has not captured that "spirit" of the character, which for me results in some very "hollow" acting. No depth, no soul.

DZ can carry the burden so long. His emotions overwhelmed ER's acting - almost making Lulu non-existent. Sadly the end result seems to the audience rooting for Spixie.

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mrsmcmoose
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Re: Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

Postby mrsmcmoose » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:43 pm

Hi Caitie *Waving* I have missed your posts.

So many thoughts circulate in my mind reading both the "Two-Scoops" commentary as well as your insightful thoughts. I can't disagree with any of it, but can only agree..

But would like to add some thoughts.

As opposed to other recasts - ER was given a so called advantage in amnesia, as that "clean slate" to play "Lulu". Even DZ is quoted as being given a "free pass" in establishing a relationship with a new actor.

So to me the goal for ER has been to "re-define" Lulu as opposed to "play" Lulu. And somewhere along the way a parallel priority also seemed to be establishing chemistry with DZ / Dante as this "wipe the slate clean" version of Lulu.

And as a result an actress lacking the depth and perspective of Lulu to pull off pivotal moments with the true depth and emotion to really make the audience care and route for Lante.

I think why the perfect scenario would have been to see Julie perform these pay - off scenes, there would have been some consolation in viewing an actress with the "connection" to Lulu. But in this case, neither I am afraid.

As far as Julie leaving. That ship sailed along time ago and it is about ER's interpretation of Lulu.

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mrsmcmoose
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Re: Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

Postby mrsmcmoose » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:53 pm

So much to say, so little time. ...

I posted the following thought the other day at LL and thought I'd share here. ER's performance aside, there is just so much more wrong with this story. And that is the perspective of Dante and Lulu insisting on adopting Connie. The way Dante and Lulu have been written - why would they want to adopt a child with such immediate "baggage". How do they explain "how their child came to be"? And in DZ's own words - Dante and Lulu would never fight for a kid that wasn't their's.

Dante and Lulu should be taking that higher road and place Connie w/ her parents. Of course there would be the sorrow, anger, heartbreak. Perhaps some introspection as to choices made. This is the type of story that sustained JuDo's Dante and Lulu.

I do think the 'angsty' fall out would be a better story, especially for Dante. DZ and his "furrowed" brow... I feel for him and his character stuck in this baby story. He has been isolated from the drama involving his father, brothers. As a police office disconnected from Anna due to her current story. Minimal interaction with Olivia (whom by the way seems to have found quite a niche these days).

Morgan seems to be getting much of the early Dante vs Sonny storytelling written under Guza. Such 'meaty' stuff and conflict. But is seems that being written as the happy husband and settled son, much of DZ's material has been taken away from him.

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oreott10
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Re: Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

Postby oreott10 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:31 pm

Hey all! Haven't been ae to post much, but I have followed along. Such a waste to have ER in this story when it could have been Julie. I'll never get that.

As always, catie....very nice post with lots to ponder.

4alarmblaze
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Re: Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

Postby 4alarmblaze » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:14 am

BOOYAA!!! :)

A TWO PART post from Caitie!! :D

******* #STANDING #OVATION*******

I just caught up on Classic GH on SoapNet for this week. One of my all time favorite DZ/LLC then DZ/JMB scenes aired...the "marriage" talk. So well written and so well acted! Plus it was hilarious!

Oh how I miss them... %(

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daisysam
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Re: Vintage Lante - All things Dante & Lulu

Postby daisysam » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:48 am

I missed the "marriage talk" epi this morning. %( That was such a great epi - great scenes for both - they worked those scenes like clockwork, their timing was PERFECT! No stepping on each other's lines or waiting for their turn to talk. So real . . . . What I wouldn't give to have that again. Happy 3 day weekend - rainy today but the Cards are playing (bye bye Dodgers) and I've got my old Lante stuff to watch. *) *)


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