Kiki, Please keep to the facts

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irisj728
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Re: Kiki, Please keep to the facts

Postby irisj728 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:00 pm

ransomha wrote:Kiki knows what a terrible mother and person Ava is which is why she knows Avery is better off with Sonny and Carly. Good for her for keeping it real!


I agree, Kiki knows first hand what an awful mother Ava is and what Avery will be subjected to.

centrd
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Re: Kiki, Please keep to the facts

Postby centrd » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:02 pm

sjogirl wrote:
centrd wrote:
I meant someone who cares about her. Someone she might actually listen to. But apparently, even that doesn't get through to her.

I didn't pay close enough attention to know whether Ava could have had Mike sprung that night or not. Wouldn't surprise me if the writers mixed it up but it's a tiny deetail that I don't really care about. Besides, Kiki figured it out on her own. This may be what SHE believes happened. All I know is Ava saw an opportunity to strong-arm Sonny and did. And Kiki is trying to tell her it's not going to turn out well. She's the wise one here, not Ava.

Normally, I'd be all for Ava seeing her daughter, and I DO NOT like how Sonny rubs it in her face that he has control, calling Carly "Mama Carly" etc. But regardless, I still don't think Ava is a fit mother, so whether she legally should have access to Avery or not, I"m okay that it's worked out that she's not in the kid's life. She's a HORRIBLE mother so no matter how it happened, it worked out for the best that Ava doesn't have custody. Between the two parents, we at least know that Sonny never uses his kids as leverage for his own means. Can't say that for Ava. She repeatedly used or betrayed Kiki to her own ends.


Well, it is an important detail to me. whether someone intentionally sent their terminally ill grandfather of their child to spend the night terrified in a jail cellar or not. It was important enough to Kiki to throw that accusation at her mom. Accusing someone of something terrible when you only think it’s the truth & you really don’t know is pretty terrible also.

I had hoped this thread wouldn’t end up being about whether Ava is redeemable or just pure evil or Ava vs Sonny, etc but maybe that was unrealistic :lol: But, since we are on the subject...

I agree with you about Ava & if in the real world, I would find her despicable. Since she is a soap opera character, I find her fascinating but then, I prefer the more interesting, flawed characters. If this were the real world, there would be very few PC residents who would be considered a “fit parent”. To that end, I do wish forgiveness & redemption was spread around a little more evenly in Port Charles...

Take Sonny for example, if he is the “most powerful crime boss on th eastern seaboard”, then he has to have personally murdered as many if not more people than Ava & ordered the murders of even more...even if it hasn’t been shown on screen (can you even get promoted off the street corner without putting someone in the ground?). However, I choose to not focus on reality - since this is a soap opera - partly because of those dimples & for the simple fact that I don’t know that GH wouldn’t have gone the way of the other ABC soaps if tptb hadn’t hired MB all those years ago.

I love Ava AND Sonny...sometimes they make me cringe & question my loyalty, but they are the type of characters that keep me coming back.


I'm actually with you. I love all the flawed characters the most, in general. Valentin, Nina, Sonny, Carly (usually), Nelle, Franco for sure. Not the ones like Faison or Helena because they're just caricatures you''re supposed to hate. But the others are all fascinating. All multi-layered with good and bad qualities that make them compelling in so many ways. And if they show some kind of remorse or vulnerability, then I can't help but love them.

For some reason, Ava just doesn't fit the bill for me. I was thinking about it this morning, asking myself, why doesn't she appeal to me? I'm not sure. I do find her over the top, not very layered, and I DON'T see any remorse in her. I see that she wants to be forgiven, but she doesn't do anything to inspire that...in me anyway. It doesn't feel like vulnerability to me, it feels like self-centeredness in the extreme. I just don't find her attractive in any way shape or form. I feel the writers are partially responsible. I don't think they give her the same opportunities for redemption that they give the other characters. Or else it's just me and she doesn't affect my sympathy meter for whatever reason. But it is what it is. I can't make myself like her. I do understand why people get upset that other characters seem to inspire more sympathy than she does, but for various reasons, they (and me) find them more sympathetic. Like I said above, I basically like all the flawed characters, with the exception of Ava. I don't know if that's by the writers' design or not.

sjogirl
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Re: Kiki, Please keep to the facts

Postby sjogirl » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:34 pm

centrd wrote:
sjogirl wrote:
centrd wrote:
I meant someone who cares about her. Someone she might actually listen to. But apparently, even that doesn't get through to her.

I didn't pay close enough attention to know whether Ava could have had Mike sprung that night or not. Wouldn't surprise me if the writers mixed it up but it's a tiny deetail that I don't really care about. Besides, Kiki figured it out on her own. This may be what SHE believes happened. All I know is Ava saw an opportunity to strong-arm Sonny and did. And Kiki is trying to tell her it's not going to turn out well. She's the wise one here, not Ava.

Normally, I'd be all for Ava seeing her daughter, and I DO NOT like how Sonny rubs it in her face that he has control, calling Carly "Mama Carly" etc. But regardless, I still don't think Ava is a fit mother, so whether she legally should have access to Avery or not, I"m okay that it's worked out that she's not in the kid's life. She's a HORRIBLE mother so no matter how it happened, it worked out for the best that Ava doesn't have custody. Between the two parents, we at least know that Sonny never uses his kids as leverage for his own means. Can't say that for Ava. She repeatedly used or betrayed Kiki to her own ends.


Well, it is an important detail to me. whether someone intentionally sent their terminally ill grandfather of their child to spend the night terrified in a jail cellar or not. It was important enough to Kiki to throw that accusation at her mom. Accusing someone of something terrible when you only think it’s the truth & you really don’t know is pretty terrible also.

I had hoped this thread wouldn’t end up being about whether Ava is redeemable or just pure evil or Ava vs Sonny, etc but maybe that was unrealistic :lol: But, since we are on the subject...

I agree with you about Ava & if in the real world, I would find her despicable. Since she is a soap opera character, I find her fascinating but then, I prefer the more interesting, flawed characters. If this were the real world, there would be very few PC residents who would be considered a “fit parent”. To that end, I do wish forgiveness & redemption was spread around a little more evenly in Port Charles...

Take Sonny for example, if he is the “most powerful crime boss on th eastern seaboard”, then he has to have personally murdered as many if not more people than Ava & ordered the murders of even more...even if it hasn’t been shown on screen (can you even get promoted off the street corner without putting someone in the ground?). However, I choose to not focus on reality - since this is a soap opera - partly because of those dimples & for the simple fact that I don’t know that GH wouldn’t have gone the way of the other ABC soaps if tptb hadn’t hired MB all those years ago.

I love Ava AND Sonny...sometimes they make me cringe & question my loyalty, but they are the type of characters that keep me coming back.


I'm actually with you. I love all the flawed characters the most, in general. Valentin, Nina, Sonny, Carly (usually), Nelle, Franco for sure. Not the ones like Faison or Helena because they're just caricatures you''re supposed to hate. But the others are all fascinating. All multi-layered with good and bad qualities that make them compelling in so many ways. And if they show some kind of remorse or vulnerability, then I can't help but love them.

For some reason, Ava just doesn't fit the bill for me. I was thinking about it this morning, asking myself, why doesn't she appeal to me? I'm not sure. I do find her over the top, not very layered, and I DON'T see any remorse in her. I see that she wants to be forgiven, but she doesn't do anything to inspire that...in me anyway. It doesn't feel like vulnerability to me, it feels like self-centeredness in the extreme. I just don't find her attractive in any way shape or form. I feel the writers are partially responsible. I don't think they give her the same opportunities for redemption that they give the other characters. Or else it's just me and she doesn't affect my sympathy meter for whatever reason. But it is what it is. I can't make myself like her. I do understand why people get upset that other characters seem to inspire more sympathy than she does, but for various reasons, they (and me) find them more sympathetic. Like I said above, I basically like all the flawed characters, with the exception of Ava. I don't know if that's by the writers' design or not.


I can respect that...I tend to fall for too many characters & have to constantly make apologies for some lol

centrd
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Re: Kiki, Please keep to the facts

Postby centrd » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:49 pm

sjogirl wrote:
centrd wrote:
sjogirl wrote:Well, it is an important detail to me. whether someone intentionally sent their terminally ill grandfather of their child to spend the night terrified in a jail cellar or not. It was important enough to Kiki to throw that accusation at her mom. Accusing someone of something terrible when you only think it’s the truth & you really don’t know is pretty terrible also.

I had hoped this thread wouldn’t end up being about whether Ava is redeemable or just pure evil or Ava vs Sonny, etc but maybe that was unrealistic :lol: But, since we are on the subject...

I agree with you about Ava & if in the real world, I would find her despicable. Since she is a soap opera character, I find her fascinating but then, I prefer the more interesting, flawed characters. If this were the real world, there would be very few PC residents who would be considered a “fit parent”. To that end, I do wish forgiveness & redemption was spread around a little more evenly in Port Charles...

Take Sonny for example, if he is the “most powerful crime boss on th eastern seaboard”, then he has to have personally murdered as many if not more people than Ava & ordered the murders of even more...even if it hasn’t been shown on screen (can you even get promoted off the street corner without putting someone in the ground?). However, I choose to not focus on reality - since this is a soap opera - partly because of those dimples & for the simple fact that I don’t know that GH wouldn’t have gone the way of the other ABC soaps if tptb hadn’t hired MB all those years ago.

I love Ava AND Sonny...sometimes they make me cringe & question my loyalty, but they are the type of characters that keep me coming back.


I'm actually with you. I love all the flawed characters the most, in general. Valentin, Nina, Sonny, Carly (usually), Nelle, Franco for sure. Not the ones like Faison or Helena because they're just caricatures you''re supposed to hate. But the others are all fascinating. All multi-layered with good and bad qualities that make them compelling in so many ways. And if they show some kind of remorse or vulnerability, then I can't help but love them.

For some reason, Ava just doesn't fit the bill for me. I was thinking about it this morning, asking myself, why doesn't she appeal to me? I'm not sure. I do find her over the top, not very layered, and I DON'T see any remorse in her. I see that she wants to be forgiven, but she doesn't do anything to inspire that...in me anyway. It doesn't feel like vulnerability to me, it feels like self-centeredness in the extreme. I just don't find her attractive in any way shape or form. I feel the writers are partially responsible. I don't think they give her the same opportunities for redemption that they give the other characters. Or else it's just me and she doesn't affect my sympathy meter for whatever reason. But it is what it is. I can't make myself like her. I do understand why people get upset that other characters seem to inspire more sympathy than she does, but for various reasons, they (and me) find them more sympathetic. Like I said above, I basically like all the flawed characters, with the exception of Ava. I don't know if that's by the writers' design or not.


I can respect that...I tend to fall for too many characters & have to constantly make apologies for some lol


Well, I respect you for finding the good in a character that isn't necessarily easy to love. And props for sticking up for them. :)

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Barbyboo
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Re: Kiki, Please keep to the facts

Postby Barbyboo » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:21 am

Lizzytish wrote:I absolutely cannot stand that little twit. She is just relentless with her mother -- if I was Ava I would have cut her loose a long time ago. Ungrateful brat.

A mother should get visitation I hate Carly being called mama by Sonny and Kiki is just a twit I agree she's mean and a flake to me..

fighterm1
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Re: Kiki, Please keep to the facts

Postby fighterm1 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:14 pm

ransomha wrote:
monicalewis wrote:I really don't care about Kiki getting the facts straight because Ava should be on death row 2 times over. Ava should STHU because she is free as a bird to go on with her life. I don't blame Sonny at all for keeping his daughter away from her.



Totally agree!

And Sonny should be on death row 10 times over.

fighterm1
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Re: Kiki, Please keep to the facts

Postby fighterm1 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:17 pm

sjogirl wrote:
ransomha wrote:Kiki knows what a terrible mother and person Ava is which is why she knows Avery is better off with Sonny and Carly. Good for her for keeping it real!


Except she didn’t keep it real. What she said to Ava was completely inaccurate. Again, this thread is not a debate about Ava‘s goodness or evilness or whoever Avery is better with, Sonny or Ava blah blah blah… Just that Kiki, needs to keep the facts straight or keep it real as you said.

I think Kiki should be loyal to her family and not the Corinthos family.

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ransomha
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Re: Kiki, Please keep to the facts

Postby ransomha » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:47 pm

fighterm1 wrote:
ransomha wrote:
monicalewis wrote:I really don't care about Kiki getting the facts straight because Ava should be on death row 2 times over. Ava should STHU because she is free as a bird to go on with her life. I don't blame Sonny at all for keeping his daughter away from her.



Totally agree!

And Sonny should be on death row 10 times over.



Sonny paid his debt to society and was released. His other 3 killings were found to be self defense. You don't go to " death row" for self defense.

Ava killed Connie and never paid but, her confession is recorded so, it's just a matter of time.

She doesn't get to destroy Avery so, in that way she is paying for changing Morgan's medication which is beyond sick,Kiki knows this which is why she reminds Ava, constantly.

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ransomha
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Re: Kiki, Please keep to the facts

Postby ransomha » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:49 pm

fighterm1 wrote:
sjogirl wrote:
ransomha wrote:Kiki knows what a terrible mother and person Ava is which is why she knows Avery is better off with Sonny and Carly. Good for her for keeping it real!


Except she didn’t keep it real. What she said to Ava was completely inaccurate. Again, this thread is not a debate about Ava‘s goodness or evilness or whoever Avery is better with, Sonny or Ava blah blah blah… Just that Kiki, needs to keep the facts straight or keep it real as you said.

I think Kiki should be loyal to her family and not the Corinthos family.



They are more family to her then Ava,
Julian wrote a terrible article about the death of Kiki's father when he ran the paper. He's a TERRIBLE Uncle.
And Kiki likes the way Michael turned out I guess and hope the same for their shared sister.
Sonny is a good father that loves his children.

monicalewis
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Re: Kiki, Please keep to the facts

Postby monicalewis » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:21 pm

June54 wrote:
monicalewis wrote:I really don't care about Kiki getting the facts straight because Ava should be on death row 2 times over. Ava should STHU because she is free as a bird to go on with her life. I don't blame Sonny at all for keeping his daughter away from her.
Ava hasn't committed anymore crimes than Sonny AJ way somebodies child also and Sonny is free as a bird,Sonny and Jason should have been on death row long before Ava came on to the scene.Talking about a unfit parent that would be Sonny.

Thing is Ava killed two people Sonny loved, one in freezing cold blood and the other his son, death my insanity. She wants everyone including Sonny to just "get over it".


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