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Soaps Boards :: Days of Our Lives Forum :: To TPTB of DOOL-Why Don’t You...
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To TPTB of DOOL-Why Don’t You...
Started by Str8tButEqual at 2012/05/27 04:43PMLatest post: 2012/09/20 06:09AM, Views: 5780, Replies: 127
HouseTops |
Quote Str8tButEqual: Quote HouseTops: Wow, St8t, you have been really thinking about this show, probably, more than TPTB. With all the characters leaving, they can put some half decent s/l together for the ones that are left. Very, very interesting. I like the round table discussions idea. They may do that, already. Looking forward to core families and their day to day stuff. The odd character coming and going is great. I think about how this show used to be when I first started in the 80’s & how I long for it to be like it was. I understand that the show can’t do location shoots anymore due to budgeting issues but that doesn’t excuse why this soap can’t recapture the great stories that it once told without recycling. My highlighting Douglas Marland’s list of How Not To Wreck A Show is something that I feel that DOOL has lost sight of to help save this show. My hope is that the letters that I mailed & this thread will help to open the eyes of TPTB and for them to finally get a clue of what most viewers want. I know what you mean about the 80's and I loved it, too, the Brady Pub, the Horton's, the Brady's, the love stories, the intrigue. I stopped watching because of working and the times it was on. DOOL has always been my favourite show. I used to love Santa Barbara and Another World. Back then, they didn't have time shifting and we, in Canada, didn't have and still don't have Soap Network. I happened to see DOOL one evening in, I think, 2009, and bamb, I was hooked, again. It was during the baby switch. I thought it was an exciting story. Little did I know it would take a life time to figure out. Talk about dragging out a storyline! Here's hoping they will stop that. Anyway, I commend you on your efforts and hope it works.  I'm thinking they are reading this stuff, with some of the one liners that we get, but are they listening????? 
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Re: To TPTB of DOOL-Why Don’t You...
moma |
ita agree the guys in charge come in get a paycheck and start writing for "big bang theory" instead of dool...i have yet too see a new writer really develope a sl from history...sometimes(quite often really) i think they think we watch for a week then not again for two years so it's ok to mess with our characters.. |
allmylovingdays |
Carrie wasn't unable to she choose not to -moma isn't it those others like Chloe and this latest that shouldn't be pregnant but the lousy writing decided screw history and lets just throw everything that soaps have had happen over and over again and just swap out names. |
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moma |
i'm sorry allmy... i was just stating that the writers sometimes really have no clue about our show. they could be writing about anything...bbt was just the first one i thought of..although i don't watch as my time is limited my sis doesn't miss an episode.... bbt must be gtreat for her with her schedule to take the time for it... she is even busier than me.... |
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allmylovingdays |
Moma no offense taken if anyone had told me how much I would love BBT a few years ago I would have laughed and bet them $$$ I would never watch, but I agree with you and Str8t that there were so many missed opportunities. It's been like that for six to seven years. But I think one of the other posters said that this last team wrote for Days in the 90's so they had to know some of the history which is why we got the Princess Gina and Pawn stuff back. |
Str8tButEqual |
Quote Str8tButEqual: Quote Str8tButEqual: Quote Str8tButEqual: Quote Str8tButEqual: Quote Str8tButEqual: Quote Str8tButEqual: Quote Str8tButEqual: Quote Str8tButEqual: Quote Str8tButEqual: ….follow the list? SOD has an old online article that featured an interview from soap legend Douglas Marland who presents a list of things of how not to wreak a show that's been copied all over the Internet. Marland who passed away on March 6, 1993 was a former actor that loved daytime and was head writer of As The World Turns, Guiding Light, and General Hospital. He worked as a writer on Another World and co-created Loving. He won multiple Emmy awards and Soap Opera Digest awards. How Not To Wreck A Show By Douglas Marland • Watch the show • Learn the history of the show. You would be surprised at the ideas that you can get from the back story of your characters • Read the fan mail. The very characters that are not thrilling to you may be the audience's favorites • Be objective. When I came in to ATWT, the first thing I said was, what is pleasing the audience? You have to put your own personal likes and dislikes aside and develop the characters that the audience wants to see • Talk to everyone; writers and actors especially. There may be something in a character's history that will work beautifully for you, and who would know better than the actor who has been playing the role? • Don't change a core character. You can certainly give them edges they didn't have before, or give them a logical reason to change their behavior. But when the audience says, "He would never do that," then you have failed • Build new characters slowly. Everyone knows that it takes six months to a year for an audience to care about a new character. Tie them in to existing characters. Don't shove them down the viewers' throats • If you feel staff changes are in order, look within the organization first. P&G [Procter & Gamble] does a lot of promoting from within. Almost all of our producers worked their way up from staff positions, and that means they know the show. • Don't fire anyone for six months. I feel very deeply that you should look at the show's canvas before you do anything • Good soap opera is good storytelling. It's very simple. ****************End list DOOL fails with this checklist and I plan to send this to TPTB as often as possible as a reminder of what should be done. I’m going to try to go through some of these points listed (not all at once). • Watch the show I often wonder if TPTB actually see the finished product that they put out for the audience and is it something that they’re proud of or is it something they put together without another thought once the last scene is done. Do they watch it and say “that’s the best I’ve seen on this soap.”---------------(From my perspective its no) • Learn the history of the show. You would be surprised at the ideas that you can get from the back story of your characters Doing research on the show is essential & the soap shouldn’t deviate from what the viewers have already seen unless there’s evidence stating otherwise that’s believable. An example: There were people wondering why it wasn’t acknowledged that Stefano & John were brothers. Some posters were glad this matter was dropped & forgotten. Unless the show provides some proof for the public that states they’re not brothers then they’re still brothers. Hatred can run deep in families that they don’t even want to be related so they just don’t mention it. • Read the fan mail. The very characters that are not thrilling to you may be the audience's favorites Do they really listen to the fans or do they get off by pitting one fan base against another by dragging things out. TPTB need to do extensive research to find out what characters the audience likes. Perhaps they could have some kind of survey on their site people can fill out and also put a message scrolling on the bottom of the TV screen while DOOL is on for those people who don’t use the internet often. I hope everyone who is reading this thread is sending letters, emails, twitter, facebook or phoning & letting TPTB know what you want to see on the show. Time is of the essence & we need to keep being persistent until September 2013. • Be objective. When I came in to ATWT, the first thing I said was, what is pleasing the audience? You have to put your own personal likes and dislikes aside and develop the characters that the audience wants to see Whenever there’s a regime change certain characters appear more prominent than the rest. The other characters tend to be tossed aside into the forgotten zone which is unfortunate for their fans. An example would be to refer to my first post on the lack of utilization of characters which highlight a few of my favorites that got tossed. Balance is the key so everyone can see the characters they like. • Talk to everyone; writers and actors especially. There may be something in a character's history that will work beautifully for you, and who would know better than the actor who has been playing the role? An idea that I got for DOOL to do is something that I heard SNL does which is that they do table reads of script but they also brainstorm ideas for their skits. Of course doing a skit is completely different than a soap but the basic idea I think would be good for them to try something like that where everyone comes together. • Don't change a core character. You can certainly give them edges they didn't have before, or give them a logical reason to change their behavior. But when the audience says, "He would never do that," then you have failed I’m just going to give a couple of examples of this: A more recent example of this is Stefano. As stated by HouseTops in this thread, JM had an interview in the latest issue of SOD stating how unhappy he was with the way DOOL was changing his character, the father/son relationship with EJ & Stefano and the relationship between Stefano & Kate. Another example would be Jennifer many posters believe that this hasn’t been the real Jen but a pod and her lack of caring in the return of Jack struggling through PTSD. • Build new characters slowly. Everyone knows that it takes six months to a year for an audience to care about a new character. Tie them in to existing characters. Don't shove them down the viewers' throats There used to be a time when this show took things slowly, we got to know the characters, what made them tick, how they got the way they are, the layers of their personality, etc… but now it seems TPTB like to rush everything. I’ll site an example even though there’s many. DOOL brings in Madison, at first I thought it could be promising she seemed like a strong willed woman who owned a business and was ready to be a cut throat competitor for Kate. About 1 month later she and Brady are going to bed 24/7 declaring undying love with not a whole lot of backstory or character depth other than she’s afraid of her “husband”. I don’t recall a lot of interaction with the majority of other characters in Salem only a select few. It could’ve been interesting to see if she had any chemistry with any other male characters besides Brady. I remember that there was something going on between Madison & Quinn awhile ago that could’ve been delved deeper but he left. Instead of the recycled Sami vs. Carrie in terms of taking one’s man, the show could’ve had Madison get involved with Rafe which would throw the Madison & Sami business relationship into a different direction. Daniel another possibility but we’ll never know because this soap is failing in the slow build. • Don't fire anyone for six months. I feel very deeply that you should look at the show's canvas before you do anything A regime change usually spells DOOM for an actor which makes me wonder if the writers can’t be creative enough to come up with any kind of material for these characters so they take the easy route and get rid of them. Whether people like these characters or not that’s beside the point, the following list just illustrates what’s happened recently with the change in writers. Fired: Christie Clark-Carrie Ian Buchanan- Ian Matthew Ashford-Jack Patrick Muldoon-Austin Sarah Brown-Madison Voluntary leave: Molly Burnett-Melanie Renee Jones-Lexie Confirmed status unknown: Joseph Mascola-Stefano Peter Reckell-Bo • Good soap opera is good storytelling. It's very simple. The last point in Douglas Marland’s list is such a basic statement & yet TPTB fail to grasp how to do it. There are a lot of talented writers out there that can fulfill this necessary step so the question remains is what MarDar said true about the big brass halting their stories? Was it the good ones? Bad ones? Every viewer has a different interpretation of the stories that they like or dislike as evidenced by the differing opinions on the soap boards. Overall during MarDar’s tenure the only s/l I’ve become invested in is the Will & Sonny gay s/l, Jack’s PTSD s/l & Lexie’s farewell. MarDar only had moments that I’ve enjoyed sprinkled throughout parts of their time writing for the show but not enough for me to say that they’re great when I compare it to other s/l from the past. To hook in viewers and keep them there is compelling stories which is the basis for a great soap. The characters within should be consistently well developed but during the events of their life they grow & change giving them layers to their personality. In order for it to be believable these changes should be done slowly over time not overnight and every character should be integrated within the whole cast which can develop relationships, family, friendships and adversaries. The older veteran characters of the show should be the foundation for this soap because the writers from the past took their time & made the effort to make them real for us by showing us their complexities which in turn makes us care for them. Some of the newer characters are underdeveloped with no substance which makes it difficult for some of the audience to invest in them emotionally, making them expendable. After watching the re-launch of Dallas I loved how the older vets interacted with the newbies of the series and that’s what I find lacking in this soap. Romance is another key factor to a great soap and TPTB seems to have a problem with understanding what that means because I didn’t see it nor did I find it believable during MarDar’s regime. As stated before in this thread research is needed for DOOL to get a clue as to what a great romance entails on this soap & I recommend watching older clips of this show or read a romance novel. I’ll even give an authors name that I like Nora Roberts; I like her because she covers romance & intrigue very well. I want to be emotionally invested in a good gay & straight romance that grows gradually over time with a solid foundation of character based drama with rootable couples. When I first started watching this show in the 80’s it felt like I was reading a GOOD book by a GOOD author and I didn’t want to put it down but now instead this book has a bunch of chapters missing by an author I wouldn’t buy again. Pivotal moments are being told offscreen when it should be shown onscreen because we want to see it in order to feel it. |
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allmylovingdays |
Str8t Romance is another key factor to a great soap and TPTB seems to have a problem with understanding what that means because I didn’t see it nor did I find it believable during MarDar’s regime. As stated before in this thread research is needed for DOOL to get a clue as to what a great romance entails on this soap & I recommend watching older clips of this show or read a romance novel. I’ll even give an authors name that I like Nora Roberts; I like her because she covers romance & intrigue very well. I want to be emotionally invested in a good gay & straight romance that grows gradually over time with a solid foundation of character based drama with rootable couples. I've never read Nora Roberts, I love Julia Quinn, Brenda Joyce and Nicholas Sparks. When I first started watching this show in the 80’s it felt like I was reading a GOOD book by a GOOD author and I didn’t want to put it down but now instead this book has a bunch of chapters missing by an author I wouldn’t buy again. Pivotal moments are being told offscreen when it should be shown onscreen because we want to see it in order to feel it. I added the 80's thing because I noticed that on another thread and I was just stating on the daily update recapping that soap writers think that soap fans need instant gratification because viewers watch reality tv shows and we see instant results or results in 8 weeks. I don't believe it's true and wish that the writers would go back to filling in the blanks. Even a sitcom of 30 minutes can have a beginning and a end and still you get a whole story that can be wrapped up within the time slot so why can't soap writers come up with original concepts or if they need to look at what we are seeing on nighttime dramas and then start writing that for daytime. |
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Str8tButEqual |
TPTB needs to understand that most viewers are in it for the journey not the shortcut. A lot of people are fed up with the instant scenario and I don’t know why this show rushes everything which misses out on all those special moments. They’re doing the same rushed relationship with Abby & Cameron and I don’t feel anything for them at all. I think it’s very telling when no new threads pop up devoted and stay on the first page for an extended period of time for supposed couples like Brady/Madison; Abby/Cameron; Chad/Mel etc... |
bryan patrick |
I totally feel your pain STR8 and I am hoping that when the new writers s/l begin to take over the show 100% of the time in late July or early August, they will show that they have read your posts and a few of ours as well. My biggest complaint has been how the show is not edgy enough or bold either. They refer to events that could and would shake the dust off if we actually saw it for ourselves. Case in point, the fact that Will was with Neal at a "gay bar" the night Stefeno was shot. Now to be fair this stuff has been in the can for awhile now and it is hard to change direction in midstream, but they can also re-edit as well, and they have done some of that too from what I understand. I have been enjoying Anthony Langford's channel on Youtube for awhile now, and I have to say that some of the soaps from overseas are so much more grown up or written for mature adults, which has the effect of some damn good entertainment. You don't feel like you're being talked down to like some little kid. They aren't afraid to "go there" with their s/l. I would love it so much if DOOL would take this direction, and in turn really shake it up and get people's tongues a wagging. |
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Str8tButEqual |
Quote bryan patrick: I totally feel your pain STR8 and I am hoping that when the new writers s/l begin to take over the show 100% of the time in late July or early August, they will show that they have read your posts and a few of ours as well. My biggest complaint has been how the show is not edgy enough or bold either. They refer to events that could and would shake the dust off if we actually saw it for ourselves. Case in point, the fact that Will was with Neal at a "gay bar" the night Stefeno was shot. Now to be fair this stuff has been in the can for awhile now and it is hard to change direction in midstream, but they can also re-edit as well, and they have done some of that too from what I understand. I have been enjoying Anthony Langford's channel on Youtube for awhile now, and I have to say that some of the soaps from overseas are so much more grown up or written for mature adults, which has the effect of some damn good entertainment. You don't feel like you're being talked down to like some little kid. They aren't afraid to "go there" with their s/l. I would love it so much if DOOL would take this direction, and in turn really shake it up and get people's tongues a wagging.  I do want romance and mystery as well, but bring us the s/l that we can all relate to. SOMETHING INTERESTING!! Don't be afraid of the fans that just want the old ways or some old fashion s/l..I like faith and family as it pertains to our everyday lives, but we all come from different places and it would be exciting to see that in DOOL..Like maybe an inter-racial couple, a gay couple, that doesn't end in some tragic horrible fate. Because not all of us suffer that end, some of us are actually very happy with our lives, and although we have struggles, our love for each other carries us through and strengthens us. For example my partner and I are going to be married on July 4 of this year, and our families and friends support us and our love for each other. Is DOOL ready for a gay wedding, I wonder if we will ever find out.. Congratulations again Bryan  . Wow a 4th of July wedding how fun.  I agree DOOL needs to wake up & get things moving. I’ve watched some of the European soaps as well AWZ, VL, GTST and others. Let’s cross our fingers that something good will come with the change in writers. |
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